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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 5:59 pm 
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Homer I missunderstood what TheAbyss said :-) my bad



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 1:47 am 

Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 12:55 am
Posts: 1
A few remarks.

It's true that
    there are ppl which abuse with bots
    there are ppl which make takeovers with bots
    there are ppl which flood with bots
    there are ppl which etc etc etc

The fact is, that there are a lot of ppl which do a lot of lame things with bots, with undernet, with other networks, spaming, wars, environment etc etc. Everyone knows this. Life is like this - there are bad ppl.

In fact, starter's question is: why to generalise ? why because of few ppl - make all botlending channels non grata ? You don't do this in real life, why to do it on IRC ? IRC is a part of our life too, a virtual part but for some of us really important.

At least him, me, all of us (which have irc, bots & programming as passion, hobby & pleasure) want to know, why to treat us as we are criminals ? Why should we be penalised for somebody's lame actions ?

He gave the #a&a as an example. That a&a has bots on hundreds channels, which had never made a take. A commnity which does not talk in terms of power - but talks in terms of passion for irc & bots, dedication, helping & assistance, programming, etc etc. a&a releases an original eggdrop script, under GNU license - for any user on IRC, a&a founds a community of ppl which has passion for irc, bots & helping. Started a lot of projects like: translations, common database, docs archives, tcl scripts under GNU license on sourceforge.net, tcl eggdrop forum, tcl eggdrop wiki, etc etc

All this can be proven, in a few seconds, I just can give few links & u all can see yourself. The question is: do u really want to see these results ? do u really want to accept this community (botlending trusted channels) ? are u really ready to admit, that botlending/bots are not evil ? that this is not a matter of power or other lame stuff ?

In fact, all I want to say, that it is not important what it's better: X's stability or an eggdrop with advanced protections, stats & services. It is important, that there is a developing community, which has to share a passion in common, which helps other ppl & which is blamed with no reason.
We are like you, we have same hobby like you - irc, we want to be treated like you. Not for our helping or other stuff, we do it because it's a pleasure for us. Just because some of us - are some of you, when u try to make a script, to help someone on irc, when u have a channel with a few friends which have the same passion ... Just because, IRC, in fact, acts on same principles.

And there will be every time someone who will abuse & someone who will create & it's unfair to mix them together.


'botlending trusted channels' community


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 12:20 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2003 12:17 am
Posts: 8
sirAndrew: You did say a&a is lame in other topics so dont try to hide and dont make me waste time on searching proof. If you agree a&a didnt take over im fine with you. It didnt so let botlending a chance :)

vselenaia:
Yes your completly right! There are people takeover with bots. Thats why we are here to separate such people from normal people who are volunteers just like YOU all.

tommytee: Why do you start with conclusion? I havent seen you posting here before :). First of all dear tommytee, if you want people to respect you, you should prove that your words mean somethink indeed. Saying a&a takeovered make you lame cause i can swear it didnt. Show me logs that it did and il discuss it with you wich i wont cause it never and EVER took over.

Also you said:
Bot lending is not welcomed on Undernet. 'If you guys' ( the owners of such channels) didn't abused so much probably you were tolerated, but since too many bot lending channels flood, takeover etc (the best example a&a ) such channels cannot be welcomed anymore.

Who guys? I didnt post this topic for people to read topic and post. Read post first! We dont tolerate takeovers and we didnt abuse. Oce again i need logs. If you find a member for Botlending Trusted Channels ABUSE we will throw him out.

TheAbyss: And there you go. X isnt made for protection :) its made for Keep-Op mode :) It only seed mods that are set on channels. +o/-o +v/-v. It has minor protections but they arent enaught :). Thats WHY we are here.


I hope i answeared clearly.

I DONT LIKE PEOPLE ACUSING ME FOR NOTHING. JUST SAYING BLABLABLA #chan MADE TAKEOVER.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 12:34 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2003 12:17 am
Posts: 8
So i want to adress this post to Cservice administrators.

Cservice:
BTC (Botlending Trusted Channels) accepts CService rule. We wont try Anymore registring BotLending Channels. But can you at least let us register out "mainchan"? It does go with AUP, i see no rule saying no registring Channels that gather Botlending channels. We dont offer bots on our main chan... we only offer help, like on #cservice :) You dont give X on cservice do you? only support? We hold bots only on legal servers wich DO allow them.

So whats your answear CSERVICE?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:07 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 3:57 am
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Firstly let start by saying I have nothing against bots. In "large" channels they can be an invaluable tool and do offer stability and control for the channel and its guests. But I think people are missing the point of what IRC is all about. It's not about who can build the best tcl script or who has the longest uptime. It's about people meeting people and sharing experiences and knowledge. I can tell from the posts that StarteR2 is very proud of the bots he/she? has and would like to see an expansion of the bot lending community. There is one problem I see with that, that being that for every bot connected, one "real" person is excluded.
StarteR2 "only has 10 bots". Ok, and if ALL restrictions against botlending channels were lifted, how many bots would you run? 100? 1000?
It's all about the bandwidth. The people who volunteer their time and resources to the project known as Undernet do so because they understand the importance of communication and IRC is a medium that makes that possible. People from all around the globe are granted free access to this service and keeping it cost effective has to be a consideration. X offers that, a single bot capable of managing the vast number of channels and users that frequent Undernet daily.
Most server MOTDs state that friendly bots are welcome. The admins are not blind to the need for a good eggdrop here and there. But to open the servers to giant bot channels would drain resources that just arent available.
If the bot "scripting" community is really serious about wanting to establish a presence on Undernet then perhaps they should all collaborate on writing a single bot dedicated to channel protection (covering the issues X doesnt) and launch it on a dedicated server? (could it be a Y or W?) Maybe one day in the future users will have a choice between channel services and protection services and the two of them could work side by side to make Undernet an enjoyable experience.

As for bot lending channels, I personally dont think they have a future, there just isnt enough control and verification available. Anyone can get a shell, launch eggdrops, and claim to be honest and reliable.

There is no spoon



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 6:02 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2003 12:17 am
Posts: 8
Hello first of all,

Gravity i must admit i agree with your post on 80%. You see ure right, people wich do have large channels and to be protected need nice tcl scripts, people who have little channels cant get X and need to maintain them open and blablabla. Its not the uptime that im speaking, my bots reach one week of uptime and then restart :). We serve people who indeed need our service, we also check channels for clones and all that stuff.

You were saying about somethink of the numver of bots. That is completly right, these bots do make the number of people who want to conect less. I have thaught of that problem and here is my solution,
BTC (botlending Trusted Channels) may link a server to Undernet. A server that is dedicated for botlending bots FROM BTC only. This way i dont see any problems... we link our server and conect only our bots there and were cool. Our server doesnt need to be official or big... we will have a max nr of bots there not more then 300, id say 150. So we dont require any dedicated server... just a little one enaught for bots.

What do you say?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 6:26 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2003 12:20 pm
Posts: 67
Location: Bucharest, Romania
Hi,

I believe that all that had to be said has been said already. By further allowing replies to this thread, we will only be chasing our tails. Almost all of us agree that one form or another of botlending may be useful for the stability of channels on Undernet (and, why not, other networks). Indeed, robots are programmed to do what humans don't have time/skills to do, and tend to be perfect in what they do.

Generalising is bad. Not all botlenders have abused and yet they have all been punished. However, it is the Undernet Official Policy and no matter how much good could it bring to the network, it will not be approved. Besides, laws are not to be questioned, they are to be respected.

Lastly, this topic has been heavily disputed on other sections of this forum. I thus see no reason to allow further posts to this thread. Thank you all for participating in the debates. Your contribution is valuable and may become "food for thought" by those who are in power to change things. The topic will be further accessible for reading.



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